fall turkey
River Boating for Fall Turkeys
With a bit of back-and-forth scheduling changes with work contracts during the summer, a fall turkey hunt trip back to the great state of Maine would follow the annual NYSOWA Fall Safari at Peck Lake.
As always, every trip to Maine to hunt with Dan Daman would be somehow different if not unusual, and a new experience. For several weeks leading up to the trip, Dan would inform me, that we might be doing a boat trip for fall turkeys and they were using a favored roost consistently. Music to my ears and added to the anticipation. With all the corn still up and unharvested in the many places we scout, this was a tactical improvement in the odds of working a fall flock of turkeys.
The drive from Peck Lake to Maine was a scenic one as I chose to take the northern route to enjoy a beautiful drive. Leaving just as the sky began to change I enjoyed an inspiring sunrise as I headed towards Rutland, Vermont to cross over the mountain passes toward Route 2 in New Hampshire. Well worth the extra drive time versus taking the major highways. I would scout more intently as I crossed into Somerset County, Maine. No feathered sightings were made until I drove over to meet Dan for a bit of scouting for turkeys. I did find a flock of gobblers on the way over, but not on a property we had access to.
Easy decision to go after the river access to a flock that had revealed themselves routinely that week. We took a flat-bottom Johnboat up the river to reach them. It was eerily quiet, almost surreal with the cool dense fog and near-pin-drop quiet in the predawn darkness. An ultra-quiet electric troll motor made the trip effortless, and just as quiet as our surroundings. We secured the boat and made the short uphill climb to our first sit. Turns out we had closed within 50 yards of the boss hen. It was a late start as far as turkey talk went. Once the boss hen opened up, we had a “significant” conversation up until she pitched down in the adjoining field.
The hen gathered her flock shortly after and we could hear her give a soft cluck in response to Dan’s slate call. She happened to like that slate call a lot. It was interesting when she got fired up on the roost, she sounded more raspy like the mouth call I was using. Switching back and forth between Dan and I, got her issuing 19-20 note assembly yelps, and we would add one more in response to keep her intensity at a peak. Having gone quiet for thirty minutes since fly down, I got up and moved toward a corner to a vantage point. I never got there as the flock was slowly working their way around. In short order, I lined up and took two young jakes. Maine allows five birds per fall season in some counties, no more than two on a given day in the fall. It was my first riverboat trip hunt for me, and I enjoyed the added element to the hunt. A prior boat trip in Clayton, NY to Grindstone Island during a NYSOWA Spring Safari was to get to the dock and then transported by truck to our hunting spots on the island. We thought that was pretty cool as well.
We would load up the boat and take a tour further upstream. Awesome views from the boat. On the way back we watch the entire flock fly out across the river in full view and a spectacular sight to behold.
A fantastic experience and will be added to our repertoire of approaches in the years ahead!
-MJ
© 2024 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
NY Fall Turkey Season In Decline?
The Fat Lady has sung for the New York second season covering most of the southern tier region. Unless I get hooked up for a hunt for the 3rd season on Long Island coming up, the turkeys are safe for a few months, until May rolls around again. The last time I filled a fall tag in New York was back in 2015. It is most certainly not due to a lack of opportunities, in fact just the opposite. The truth of it is I had opportunities each year since, and would come up in range for a shot opportunity or could easily set up a plan on a fresh sighting and march forward with battle operations either with our beloved Weimaraners, who both have now passed over the rainbow bridge or could set up near a roost the following morning based on timely intel.
With the lack of sightings covering large areas, and many options of parcels to hunt, including fantastic state lands that have been great each spring season, I opted not to fill a tag on a jake, jenny, or a hen in flocks I did find and were no more than 5-10 birds in the flock. A flock of gobblers, say a half dozen or more would be fair game, but as witnessed, a couple here or there wasn’t rising to the occasion given how depressed the population is currently and the decline of recent years.
Before you draw any conclusions or respond hastily, my comments are at best anecdotal commentary. There is no scientific observation or proof of authority suggested, not by my intentions. It is one data point covering a specific set of parcels, my travels, and it is assumed Murphy is riding shotgun and thwarting my best efforts to spot them at will. Not seeing much for scratching’s or scat you would find in known roost areas. I know of other hunters in different regions who report decent sightings and are successful when all is said and done. For the past nine fall seasons, the scouting has shown little promise for flocks large enough to want to take a turkey out of. I still hunt the fall turkey seasons in New York, and as of late, it is more like catch and release without the ballistic event or just wading in the stream.
As I wrangle out my thinking here, It might be a thought to hunt them with a camera and satisfy my driven tradition of hunting fall turkeys. I will hold any opinion of what the past two years are looking to add up to once I do my winter scouting and hopefully will get more up-to-date data from the NYSDEC.
-MJ
© 2023 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Fanning & Reaping, Banned In Eight States
If you engage the fanning/reaping technique, here’s an up-to-date change of state regulations for this fall season. You’ll find that I repeat prior musings in part or in whole from past reports on the method.
A new book due out in 2024 will cover safety issues and current bans ReaperCide, Fatalism Defined https://www.joyneroutdoormedia.com/rfd.html
New Hampshire has now adopted a ban against Fanning and Reaping within the state https://nhfishgame.com/2023/08/25/fall-turkey-season-opens-september-15/
Eight states now have an outright ban on the practice. Nearly half of all US states either ban or strongly warn against stalking which encompasses fanning and reaping methods. The states are listed below. The NWTF and hunter safety education curriculums promote hunter safety in their published materials in all states which cautions specifically against the practice of stalking (fanning/reaping.) The list is based on what is officially published. It is a valid criticism of foreseeable risks.
There are recorded incidents that specifically report fanning/reaping/stalking, and I’m fine with it remaining only a few. The reporting is sparse and critical details are left out as an observed and learned opinion. Hunting incident reports site use of decoys, but not the manner used. No assumption is asserted here as I know of incidents where staked decoys were shot at, decoys shot at while sticking out the back of a turkey vest. Several seasons ago, a hen decoy sticking out of a turkey vest was shot with a crossbow at 8 yards. Trust me, it is a horrific wound. Having interviewed the victim directly, I can tell you the medical team miraculously reassembled his forearm, and he regained use of it. It is a credit to the advancements in modern surgical techniques and the capable hands of well trained surgeons.
Our hunting communities are polarized in keeping with national politics, with that in mind, this topic is a hot button for more than a few hunters. I’ll not apologize for opposing the method, nor more than I would for common sense, nor put respect and courtesy on the back burner in order to kill a gobbler that is giving me fits. Turkey hunting is life to a point… Unacceptable safety concerns associated with this method is the objection, no more, no less.
As a fraternity of turkey hunters, we abide by the ideal that all turkey hunting incidents are 100% preventable, and that one is far too many. 2023 was not a spotless record. To my knowledge, none that have been reported directly involve this method this past season. There are two, that remain unclear, no further details given, I’ll repeat, I am more than fine with that idea. Zero incidents are the acceptable number in any season.
List of States, Provinces
In a review on the various DNR’s, DEC’s, DWR’s etc, the following States enacted a ban on the practice of stalking, fanning, reaping, and specifically stated in their turkey hunting regulations:
Alabama, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania
South Carolina (WMA’s only), Rhode Island, Tennessee (WMA’s only)
The following States, and one Canadian Province issue a statement of caution specifically in their hunting regs and or species-specific guides against the practice of stalking as a matter of safety:
Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Idahong
Kentucky (specifically fanning/reaping), Maine, Maryland, Missouri.
New York, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon.
Ontario, Canada. Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin
There may be more that publish separately as safe hunting tips, and hunting education courses. For my research, I used the published hunting regulations for each state or province. I will edit the list as others become known.
-MJ
© 2023
Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
NY Counties Est. Wild Turkey Harvest Reports
In further examination of NY State wide harvest reports, https://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2368 we’ll look at this by the county-wide macro, all the way back before the observable peaks and what is considered by many to be the heyday of turkeys in nearly every place you might look for them. I ask that you consider this carefully from the larger view, rather than looking at widely varying micro-ecosystems. There is a list of precepts, assumptions, and points to make to take notice of and pay heed to before coming to any conclusions. In comparision to the state wide view, pay particular attention to the numbers as the lower estimated numbers appear to vary widely and can be attributed to many factors that tend to null each other out in a larger, macro scale.
Source data used:
The data from 1999 thru 2021 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links. Currently, active published links only go back to 2012.
NYSDEC data from 2006 thru 2021 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
NYSDEC data from 1999 thru 2005 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
The data from 1990 thru 1998 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links.
Precepts:
- All data used to create this is from NYSDEC published reports. All comments made here are not as a representative or authority of the NYSDEC or reviewed. Corrections, and or clarifications are sincerely welcomed to make this as accurate as feasibly possible.
- Estimation factors applied to reported harvest numbers are targeted to realistically represent poaching estimates, harvest reporting participation, and other factors identified by the NYSDEC.
- This is a sub-macro county-wide view. Anecdotally, each of us can cite absolute conclusions from our honey holes, the trash talk at the diners, conversations at the trail heads, etc. Managing the wildlife resource by region is the current method.
- Very few of us hunt more than a few counties any given season and even less are afield throughout the entire year. The extenuating factors to list by towns. public game lands, much less by individual parcels, tracts of land are too many, too varied to digest well enough to rationally get a handle of the widespread landscape of decline.
- The factors derived by the years 1999 through 2005 were averaged out by county and applied to estimate numbers for 1990 thru 1998. NYSDEC has not provided or published factors for these years. The peak factor numbers were not used in my calculations so as to not overstate the peak years. If such factoring data exists it would be much preferred
Observations:
- As the peak years are based only on derived averaged factoring, (1999-2005 Spring Season) it is a conservative estimate that the population is now roughly 20-25% of the peak population year. Some individual counties at first glance appear to be further declined. It will require correlation with license sales in those counties to validate that. What is sustainable year to year is not submitted or asserted here. It is far more complex than the harvest data thus far can suggest.
- The factoring spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 2.65 to 7.40.
- The average spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 4.06 to 5.71.
- The averaged factor among all NY counties = 4.57 (1999-2005 Spring Seasons)
- Translation- for every harvest reported. 3.57 turkeys across the Empire State were not reported or taken illegally. It is unclear as to what percentages or other contributors.
Comments:
I invite the NYDEC to comment to participate in communicating to New York Sportsmen as to what goes into the statistical modeling and factoring of yearly game harvest number estimates.
I will conclude by asking each of you to view this as trending data, not absolute. Hopefully, the folks at the NYSDEC will provide much more clarity to this and further explain the modeling and factoring that makes this a monitoring tool for the wild turkey resource we are so passionate about.
-MJ
© 2022
Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Estimated Wild Turkey Harvest Reports NY
With the ongoing concerns about the observable decline of wild turkey populations in the great Empire State, it is a timely exercise to take a look at the estimated harvest numbers. We’ll look at this by the statewide macro, all the way back before the observable peaks and what is considered by many to be the heyday of turkeys in nearly every place you might look for them. As a geeky engineer personality, I follow such statistics concerning our favored nemesis, including measurable trophy records. I ask that you consider this carefully from the macro view, as estimations rely on statistical modeling that bears true overall from large volumes of data rather than looking at widely varying micro-ecosystems. Before I dive into this further there is a list of precepts, assumptions, and points to make to take notice of and pay heed to before coming to any conclusions. The current topic of population decline is an emotional and often heated discussion full of finger-pointing and rife with blame and quick fixes. The purpose of this is to show how severe the decline is estimated to be.
Source data used:
The data from 1999 thru 2021 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links. Currently, active published links only go back to 2012.
NYSDEC data from 2006 thru 2021 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
NYSDEC data from 1999 thru 2005 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
The data from 1990 thru 1998 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links.
Precepts:
- All data used to create this is from NYSDEC published reports. All comments made here are not as a representative or authority of the NYSDEC or reviewed. Corrections, and or clarifications are sincerely welcomed to make this as accurate as feasibly possible.
- Estimation factors applied to reported harvest numbers are targeted to realistically represent poaching estimates, harvest reporting participation, and other factors identified by the NYSDEC. I would invite them to comment on what is involved in reaching estimation factors applied to each county.
- This is a macro statewide view. Anecdotally, each of us can cite absolute conclusions from our honey holes, the trash talk at the diners, conversations at the trail heads, etc. Managing the wildlife resource by region is the current method.
- Very few of us hunt more than a few counties any given season and even less are afield throughout the entire year. The extenuating factors to list by county much less by individual parcels, tracts of land are too many, too varied to digest well enough to rationally get a handle of the widespread landscape of decline. Such studies on micro ecosystems would take decades to complete and reach any consensus or actionable conclusions.
- The factors derived by the years 1999 through 2005 were averaged out by county and applied to estimate numbers for 1990 thru 1998. NYSDEC has not provided or published factors for these years. The peak factor numbers were not used in my calculations so as to not overstate the peak years. If such factoring data exists it would be much preferred
Observations:
- As the peak years are based only on derived averaged factoring, (1999-2005 Spring Season) it is a conservative estimate that the population is now roughly 20-25% of the peak population year. Some individual counties at first glance appear to be further declined. It will require correlation with license sales in those counties to validate that. What is sustainable year to year is not submitted or asserted here. It is far more complex than the harvest data thus far can suggest.
- The factoring spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 2.65 to 7.40.
- The average spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 4.06 to 5.71.
- The averaged factor among all NY counties = 4.57 (1999-2005 Spring Seasons)
- Translation- for every harvest reported. 3.57 turkeys across the Empire State were not reported or taken illegally. It is unclear as to what percentages or other contributors.
Comments:
I invite the NYDEC to comment to participate in communicating to New York Sportsmen as to what goes into the statistical modeling and factoring of yearly game harvest number estimates. Poaching of course is already illegal, over-harvest, etc. One thing each of us can control and improve as a group is the harvest reporting participation. 90-100% is possible. I can recall from NYSDEC -NY NWTF meetings during the change over from raw harvest data reporting to estimated harvest reporting, how low the harvest reporting participation was thought to be. I am a big fan of removing as much guessing as possible to improve the statistical modeling. With the population severely declining, how well does it bode to turn a blind eye to those we know that pile up a half dozen gobblers season after season before filling the first tag? It is not the primary reason for the decline but a contributing factor and hinders the ability to accurately model population trends, or stability.
We can do better. If we are to get a handle on the low-hanging fruit of root causes causing the population to decline, we need to get past this, what we can directly, and immediately control. This is a friendly reminder that as sportsmen, we do not require a state agency to self-regulate our own actions. I won’t implore that any of you adopt my personal ethics, but I would ask each of you to give pause/reservation to squeezing the trigger at your favored stomping grounds where you now only see one or two birds whereas you use to see fifteen or twenty in the spring. In far too many locations across the state, we make that choice on what may be the last remaining turkeys, in the field, on the hill. It may be some time to see them rebound, and there are too many places on my list that I’ll check on, but I am no longer willing to fill a tag there. This includes my own property. It is a most disheartening thing.
I will conclude by asking each of you to view this as trending data, not absolute, and is in a broad view of the entire New York wild turkey population. Hopefully, the folks at the NYSDEC will provide much more clarity to this and further explain the modeling and factoring that makes this a monitoring tool for the wild turkey resource we are so passionate about.
-MJ
© 2022
Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Update-Maine Woman Shot By Fall Turkey Hunter
Update From Sept. 27, 2021 Story- A fall turkey hunter from Leeds, Maine while hunting, now faces multiple felony charges and one misdemeanor stemming from last September’s shooting incident which left Katherine Brennan requiring medical services.
Brennan was transported to Central Maine Medical Center in Lewiston and later reported in stable condition. It is reported that on the day of the shooting, Jacobs called 911 and remained with her until emergency services arrived.
Timothy Jacobs, 61, Jacobs has been indicted for aggravated assault, reckless conduct with a firearm, both of which are felonies, and assault while hunting, a misdemeanor. If convicted, Jacobs faces up to a 10-year prison sentence and a possible maximum fine of $20,000.
source: https://www.argus-press.com/news/state_news/article_94f24485-684f-5ff8-971e-157684e02917.html
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2180
Repeated from prior posts: We can do better as zero incidents is the only acceptable number by following the most basic safety protocols. Each time I go afield I know that I owe myself, each of you to clearly identify my target, what is in front and beyond the target, to be safe, to employ strict and safe firearm handling. I also owe each of you to pause if anything is not quite right, or by chance what is in front of me is not 100% as it appears. Take the time to be 100% sure…
I will update as more details are published. As with any incidents like this we pray for those injured, that have succumbed to their injuries and for their families. May they heal well Godspeed.
-MJ
© 2022 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Rules to Live by for a Turkey Hunter
Never return to a place without the host that you were invited to as a guest.
Always be a graceful and grateful guest
Never leave a sit or a blind without a gun “just to take look, answer a call of nature.”
Always be observant and alert, as the action can change instantly.
Never stalk a turkey sound, shoot at sounds, or movement in the brush.
Always be 110% sure of your quarry. Always be safe in the turkey woods.
Never be late on an invite. Bring extra coffee and appropriate rations of Little Debbie’s.
Always arrive early at your hunting grounds. Have a plan B and C. Come back later after they leave.
Never knowingly intrude on another hunter’s setup.
Always first assume that turkey calls may be another hunter.
Never argue with an uncivil jackass in the turkey woods. You’re not the “Ass whisperer”
Always be the better person as the turkey woods are too magnificent not to enjoy.
Never think you are invisible. The best camo in the world is rendered useless by “can’t sit still.”
Always be still, Always be patient.
Never ask someone how many gobblers they kill.
Always, if asked, lie like a fisherman.
Never run turkey calls like you would hawking products at a sports show
Always use turkey calls as a tool in your hunting strategy
Never compromise your ethics or safety in your methods and actions.
Always respect your fellow hunters. You never know when you may need them.
Never be in a hurry in the turkey woods, There is far too much to enjoy,
Always slow it down a bit, it is not a race. Run and gun doesn’t always work.
Never rush a shot. Identify, acquire, clear foreground/background, and then squeeze.
Always get your head down on the stock. Make it count.
-MJ
© 2022 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Maine Woman Shot By Fall Turkey Hunter
A woman was shot on 9/27 by a male fall turkey hunter near Walton’s Way in Leeds, Maine. It is not disclosed if she was also hunting, or particpating in other recreational activities. It is reported that the hunter called 911 and stayed with her until emergency personnel arrived. She was later reported in stable condition at Central Maine Medical Center. Warden service evidence response team, Warden Service K9 Team, Maine State Police and the Androscoggin Sheriff’s office. were onsite, and the investigation is ongoing.
https://www.argus-press.com/news/state_news/article_94f24485-684f-5ff8-971e-157684e02917.html
This brings the 2021 Spring/Fall turkey seasons up to eleven hunters, one woman, and one hiker shot. More details on prior reported incidents:
https://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2139
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2008
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2051
Repeated from prior posts: We can do better as zero incidents is the only acceptable number by following the most basic safety protocols. Each time I go afield I know that I owe myself, each of you to clearly identify my target, what is in front and beyond the target, to be safe, to employ strict and safe firearm handling. I also owe each of you to pause if anything is not quite right, or by chance what is in front of me is not 100% as it appears. Take the time to be 100% sure…
I will update as more details are published. We continue to pray for those injured, that have succumbed to their injuries and for their families. May they heal well Godspeed.
-MJ
© 2021 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media