Tag: pachers
Trespass In NY- Turkey Hunter? Deer Hunter? Fisherman?
For those of you that are not familiar with the great Empire State, it is a very short drive from one of the largest cities in the world, even shorter drive from the lesser known cities to find yourself amongst the great farmlands, forests, mountains and fisheries of New York where I call home. Despite bizarre politics, stifling regulations, punitive taxation (#1, highest in the Nation) that has driven out industry and the prosperity that goes with it, it is one of the most resource diverse states when you come to appreciate the four million-plus acres of public lands, nearly another million more acres under conservation easements, the raw natural beauty, and recreational opportunities we have here. I reside with my bride in one of the seven valleys of Cortland County which I am more than fond of. The topic at hand actually applies across our great nation and not solely unique to New York. As I truly love what I have here as my little piece of paradise, I’ll refer to my beloved state as my frame of reference.
With such highly coveted resources, much of which is available to everyone as public lands and public waterways, the subject of trespass, destruction of property, theft and other criminal behavior appears to be more common even in the off seasons, despite numerous large tracts of state and federal lands for all to share. My comments are aimed specifically towards sportsmen and sportswomen. Criminals, common thieves, polluters are not likely to be moved or swayed by any opinions you, or I may have or convey. As a landowner and as a member on a hunting lease from time to time I have that set of perspectives. I also hunt and fish on a mix of state game lands, waterways, and a fair amount of private holdings that have granted me the right to spend time on and enjoy. I’ll break down my thoughts in lists for each viewpoint.
As a hunter:
- Do we show ourselves as being fortunate and privileged to be granted access to private lands that another pay taxes on, farms, maintain for their business or homestead, manages for wildlife? Do we show respect for them and their property? Do we fundamentally understand that landowner rights take priority over any right or desire we may feel to hunt or fish?
- On lands that are commonly known for open access do we make it a point to learn of the owner’s name as a courtesy to thank them or to learn of any concerns they may have? It helps to avoid future problems. Do we take for granted these lands and treat them as a free for all, our personal playgrounds?
- On state lands do we treat it as if we own it? In a roundabout reasoning we do via the income taxes that are paid. Being respectful, having regard for our resources should not be a conditional thought or action.
- Challenging a landowner or another hunter, in general, is not the smartest idea, nor a step in improving hunter/landowner relations. The exception is the arrogant slob hunter who is not authorized to patrol a property or trespassing themselves and falsely claiming a spot. Too many stories of others trying to throw people off that have permission including landowners off their own property.
- Items we may come across while hunting without regard to who owns the land, do we leave undisturbed, unmolested unless clearly lost (such as a jacket, wallet, personal camera, game call). Stealing or destroying treestands, game cameras, blinds, traps, etc. is a despicable, lowly act to inflict on a fellow hunter. Even when we find such items on our own places that are not supposed to be there, do we attempt to find out whom they belong to first and get the word out? If that fails to produce a result in instances I have come across, I bring it back to the house and attempt to find the owner while notifying the county Sheriff’s/ NYSDEC ECO, and they can retrieve their items after an intimate chat with law enforcement. Charges may apply if egregious, or not your first time trespassing. In principle do we take another’s property while not knowing fully the circumstances.?
- While being respectful of the lands hunted, it is good practice to extend that to fellow hunters. Having someone purposely interfering with your time in the woods is greatly unappreciated. A common occurrence with the mentality of having to get your gobbler or buck before the other hunter does. As sportsmen, sportswomen we are better than that.
- Access to hunting properties has dropped while the behavior of some fellow hunters deters hunter recruitment or makes the hunting experience on state lands or private lands less desirable for the recreational hunter, fisherman. The same foolishness, monkey business that is assumed all too common on public grounds in known to be just as much a problem on private holdings. Private land is not immune to breaches in ethical or sportsmanlike conduct. There is no legitimate excuse for treating fellow hunters and fishermen in a poor manner that occurs. Trespass shows disrespect for the landowners and fellow hunters alike
- Of our sport, the passions we so dearly love. are we humbled and appreciative of the great forests and waterways? Are we humbled and appreciative of our fellow hunters and fishermen that we share these great resources with?
As a landowner or lease/club member:
- Vast amounts of money are involved to purchase, pay county & school taxes, or fees to lease. Land taxes have risen well ahead of inflation to the tune of 2X-3X over other states in the union. It can be viewed as legalized theft in some lines of thought. As a landowner, it is a thought process quickly learned and a reality. Leases have risen due to taxes, and the popularity of outdoor-focused leasing /realty companies. The continual loss of farms and the increase in development further increase the cost and demand for recreational properties. Maintaining a property for wildlife involves plenty of funds and sweat equity.
- Because your past three generations of family hunted there, it does not trump or replace courtesy, respect, or asking permission. Your ignorant boasting of entitlement to hunt wherever you want is a false premise. It is all too common a complaint about local hunters. Your family or those that passed on are not maintaining, nor paying taxes on the property. You can easily change that, be a great neighbor.
- Fishermen do not get a pass on self-granted rights to trespass as access to private honey holes is not an entitled right of way. In New York, navigable waters have a separate set of laws that apply.
- Poor behavior, trespass, destruction of property, theft, infighting between hunting parties, poaching, ignoring specific instructions, or requests are all legitimate reasons why landowners say no or rescind your permissions. As a landowner saying no is their right that may or may not come with an explanation.
- It is a major irritation to expend time and money to thwart, report and or prosecute trespassers only to see them given a slap on the wrist or a minor fine. $50 to$250 fines are not enough to deter the disrespect, the ignorance that exists in the hunting community.
- How many of you visit to help a landowner in the offseason or in season, send thank you’s or visit to thank in person? Do you invite them for a home-cooked meal, or in general conduct yourself as a good neighbor, an ethical hunter that appreciates the privilege?
With the acceptance of game cams as scouting tools, it has become an additional season of installing and checking in the summer months. With the competitive nature of some in our ranks, the quest for boon’r buck or record setting long beard or the best fishing hole in the county causes some to steal memory cards, game cams, or destroy them and any stands or blinds they come across. In the past few years, the frequency of this type of criminal activity is increasing if judged by posts on social media. Whether there is increased trespass or that we now have better tools to capture it is made far worst that it is being done in many occurrences by fellow hunters. Clicking through the various hunting groups on social media it is astounding the number of reports of tree stands stolen or rendered unusable, deer cams broke or stolen, SD memory cards stolen.
In the following list are links to NYS sites that deal specifically with trespass, regulations, posting info, etc. I have included other useful links as well as one to a prior blog on game cam strategies.
- Public Fishing Rights and the Landowner -NYSDEC
- Posting Information for Landowners, Boaters, Fishermen and Hunters -NYSDEC
- Avoiding Conflicts Between Waterfowl Hunters and Waterfront Property Owners -NYSDEC
- ASK -NYSDEC
- Dealing with Trespassers -Cornell Univ
- Recreational access and owner liability -Cornell Univ
- Post Deer Season- Time to Implement a New Game Camera Strategy
As a landowner, I can tell you first hand you will quickly expand your fan base in a less than desirable way by wanting to control your property in any configuration. Some folks feel or even insist they have a right to your place. You and I may have an adverse response to such arrogant entitlement thinking. Trust me it is out there as many are not shy about it, in fact boastful.
Diligence and willingness to press charges does pay off as it eventually reduces trespass once they learn you have a spine and will do what is needed to fully enjoy your place as the owner of the property. I can tell you that sending a certified notice against trespass or having the local sheriff deliver it in person is an effective way to get your point across. Posting, maintaining signs, the expense of cameras, batteries,and other items just to secure your place takes away from time and money otherwise spent enjoying it.
Poor behavior is not a one-way street, as we all know that one special landowner that tries to claim rights to other properties, accosts anyone that comes near their boundary or travels an adjacent road along their place. It makes for hostile or worse interactions. I have been privy to one property owner near me that claimed to own the county road that dissected her place. Unnecessary conflict and bad relations for all involved.
It is my well-learned opinion that we New Yorkers have easy access to thousands upon thousands of the best public hunting grounds to be found in our great nation. Our waterways are world-renowned and something to cherish. As ethical sportsmen and sportswomen, criminal trespass is an abhorrent act towards each other and especially landowners. As hunters, as fishermen, as landowners, there is much room to improve relationships with only a little effort and a large dose of mutual respect. We all deserve this from each other.
-MJ
© 2017 Joyner Outdoor Media
NYSDEC Flips The Bird To The Traditional Fall Turkey Hunter
To those that follow all things related to wild turkeys in New York, you may well know that fall season is a very different one here in the great state of New York. To those not entirely up to speed on what has changed, the generously long season in recent times use to run from October 1st up until the Friday before southern tier gun season for deer. Roughly 6-1/2 weeks in the central part of the state. Northern NY just two weeks, and the western part of the state would not start until mid-October. Long Island has had a season for only a few years now and runs into December.
That has all changed now with Northern NY having changed the least. The NYSDEC has come up with a staggered two week season that varies across the state. A one bird limit has also been implemented. How it has been implemented, and combined with changes in recent years forms my opinion that the NYSDEC has as much as given the middle finger to the traditional fall turkey hunter, turkey dogger (those of us that use turkey dogs to bust them up in the fall.)
Before I go further I do agree that changes needed to be made. It is reasonable to conclude in my point of view that the wild turkey numbers are down. Compared to population peaks in the mid to late 90’s they are drastically down. Historically, going back to 70’s, and 80’s and even further back one can make several arguments. Sightings now vary greatly across the state from those that I hear from, and in my travels. There are many questions about the natural holding capacity of suitable habitat. Many hunters are blaming fishers and coyotes, and yes, they are efficient predators, but not taking out entire flocks. It is hard to compete with Mother Nature, especially with the string of wet, cold springs we have over the past 5-6 years. Last two springs have not been as bad. Nesting success has been spotty at best, and likely the culprit or the lion’s share of the decline. I have been told over the years that for every legally tagged turkey there is likely two more that are not. Not exactly a great way to keep track of what’s what when managing seasons. I blame poachers for this, not dedicated and ethical turkey hunters. Exceptions noted… While my further comments are very critical in what the NYSDEC has done, it is proper to acknowledge that it is not such an easy thing to manage nor black and white in the decisions to be made.
In the CNY region up until several years ago, the traditional fall turkey hunter could pursue their favored pastime for two weeks without risking disturbing bow hunters looking to arrow a whitetail. Perfect time to bust flocks with a turkey dog. Those two weeks are compromised giving the bow hunters another two weeks of early season. Many land owners and bow hunters are ok with fall turkey season until bow season opens up. Thumbs down against the NYSDEC for doing this. The one bird limit makes sense, and is an expected variable when tasked to manage the flocks. It is obvious to those of us immersed into fall turkey hunting that much of our inputs fell on the ears of those that had already made up their minds. Basically going through the motions and the final decisions were based more on other groups interests or other’s perception of hunter satisfaction. Fall turkey hunters seem to have fallen off of that list. It is thought that a significant percentage of the fall take occurs from incidental opportunities from bow hunters while on a deer watch. One could see how that might be kept as a hunter satisfaction perspective, namely that of a bow hunter. I started out bow hunting for deer, and can understand the idea. However in the quest to tightly reducing and controlling the fall take, prohibiting the taking of fall turkeys from a tree stand would certainly impact the harvest numbers. I highly doubt archery organizations would allow that to go unanswered without a lot of backlash. One can argue the virtues of incidental hunting vs those that put on a turkey vest and go afield to participate in the age old tradition of fall turkey hunting. Instead of reducing the season to a staggered two weeks in a given region why not make it gobbler or bearded turkeys only, and that would have a huge impact in reducing the fall take.
It is baffling why the NYSDEC has done a bang-up job of ignoring the hunter satisfaction aspect of the dedicated fall turkey hunter, turkey dogger. Even though the fall season at one time was “The Season” it is now the spring season that captures most of everyone’s attention. In just a few short years the NYSDEC choices made to reduce harvest take numbers has negatively impacted much of a fall turkey hunters time afield to enjoy the great turkey woods in NY. In light of this observation, I assert they could have made better choices and served the great past time of the traditional fall turkey hunter, turkey dogger in a much better fashion.
© 2015 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Poacher / Trespasser -the alternate path to “Gates of Forever Roost”
My My how things quickly change……………
To be honest I was elated with yesterday’s hunt, and had one of those “I’m where I’m suppose to be, and all is ok in my world” type of days. This morning started out much the same, it is the late morning portion of today’s hunt that is the subject of this post. As you’ll read further it will quickly become a holier than thou rant. I am giving fair warning that I am climbing up on a big ol’ soap box, and I’ve got some things to say.
To preface this wonderful occurrence, I have to omit names of certain friends and families and the location of property in question. I am a guest on the property and the family we are good friends with are the only ones with permission to hunt it. Located somewhere 30 minutes north and east of our home in East Homer New York, it is a huge farm with lots of wild game, great land features, and one that I have had the privilege to step foot on. Todays hunt would start out on different properties and would yield little to go on as high winds made it difficult to hear anything on the roost. The young gentlemen that I hunted with had to head off to school, so I opted to hunt an upper portion of the property and set up in a location where birds had been seen loitering in previous days. I am not much for field hunting as most of my gobblers are dealt with in patches of woods or my favored ridges. Given that the woods are still very open,and high winds, I settled on a corner of a long field where several trails come in and out, and was a likely funnel for birds drifting through the area. From 8am until the end of the morning I would catch a gobble here and there in between wind gusts. Not sure where, but glad to hear them just the same.
Somewhere around 9:30-10AM I notice a recent year Black Chevy pickup stopping along the road and was obviously surveying the property I was on. I am certain my two decoys were spotted as they parked directly above me for a good 12-15minutes, whereas they would spend 8-10 minutes at the most working their way up the road. As the morning was creeping toward the end and well after 11AM, I notice two gobblers with visible swinging beards coming in hard and fast to my hard left. My guess would be 150+ yards out. Not sure if they came across the road or along the woods I was in, and swung high to gain a vantage point. I had heard gobbles behind me and to my left. As they closed to within 100-120 yards and almost as far from the wood line, BOOM!!!!! Yeah it rocked my world and how. The shot was withing 60-80 yards from where I was sitting. It was apparent that a trespasser had snuck in, knew where I was, and proceeded to cut me off in order to grab a bird. No idea how the trespasser figure they could beat me to the bird, and evade me, and not become the main participent to a hugh impending asswhooping I would be more than willing to dish out. I got up,and was yelling some words I’ll not repeat here. I did yell “I’m a hunter” in there somewhere in the profanity and ran to about where I thought the shot came from. The woods roll up and over,and apparently whoever it was, decided to leave quicker than they snuck in. Being a distance runner, I would have made good on catching them if I could have seen the direction they took. At the shot, both gobblers ran down the hill, passing me roughly 60 yards out, and doing their best rendition of the FTD man at top speed. Neither bird appeared injured or molested. I thought it odd that they hadn’t taken flight. I guess they thought the deeks might run along with them. I found myself shaking from being that upset and angry at what took place. The time and effort to play out a strategy, and patiently work the setup to its conclusion to be disrupted from unethical and unsafe decisions by those I would call and accuse of being poachers.
Not getting a bird that was so close is not really a big deal, it happens due to so many other valid things such as hens coming in, predators, farm equipment, making the wrong call, and or making a poorly timed movement. From my perspective of filling tags year after year, it is not a huge deal. Go back at it again the next day. What has me more than upset is that between us was an old logging road that the gobblers could have turned into had they decided to circle the decoys first. Not my first choice, but I have seen them do it in the past. Had that occurred, I would have been pointing a loaded firearm at a camouflaged hunter whom had snuck in, and that I was not aware of. The likelihood of picking them out in my foreground or background of my sight picture would be non existent. I could also have been the recipient of the same gun pointing, except I believe whomever it was, knew my position. The possibilities for a worse than bad day were through the roof when this person decided that property rights don’t matter, ethics don’t matter,and fundamentally, my safety or theirs did not matter. All this for a damn bird. Same goes for deer, elk, whatever your animal of choice is. As much as I love turkey hunting, and deer hunting, I would be mortified to be branded as a trespasser or for violating a pile of game laws, much less shooting someone. I have yet to see how the taking of any game species could be worth making such terrible choices while afield.
One of the very discussions I had with the two young hunters with me this morning, was that when I look at a set of spurs, a taxidermy mount or maybe a tail fan display, I want to remember the epic quality of the hunt, the things I sensed and experienced while in pursuit. I cannot wrap my brain around on slamming a trophy animal by shooting it out a truck window, or trespassing when I think no one is around, or some other unethical act. I view each animal I take as one of god’s creatures that provides me with the emotional aspects of the hunt, and table fare that my wife and I enjoy immensely. It is a matter of respect to hunt ethically and fairly. As a hunter we owe it to ourselves, the animals we pursue and to our fellow hunters as well. To the individual that did what they did today, you are not a hunter, you are not a sportsman. If anything your actions reflect a very negative light upon our sport, and as a fellow human being.
I know my wife will not be happy reading any of this, and I can say very little about it. I am grateful that the rash of terrible choices made by this person did not end up far worse, and for that matter it might have been best they evaded me in their hasty exit, otherwise I might be blogging this from jail. Blessings even in awful stories such as this one.
Thank you for enduring my rant and a less than positive post. I normally want to keep things on the bright side, but that is not the case today.
© 2014 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
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